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[贴图]越南人论坛上的民族英雄征氏姐妹抗击中国汉朝军队图

发表于 2004-11-25 20:10:00|荷兰 | 查看全部 |阅读模式

越南人配诗一首:

Cờ báo phục, hai bà khởi nghiã

Đuổi quân thù, xưng đế một phương

Long Biên sấm dậy sa trường

Ba thu xã tắc miếu đường uy nghi

Xót nòi giống quản chi bồ liễu

Giòng Cẩm Khê còn réo tinh anh

Một phen sông núi tranh giành

Má hồng ghi dấu sử xanh đời đời.

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发表于 2004-11-25 20:19:00|海南 | 查看全部
汉朝人哪穿这种衣服?好象是清朝的服装,右边那位还留辫子。
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 楼主| 发表于 2004-11-25 20:58:00|荷兰 | 查看全部

估计是后人画的。

在外国人眼中,古中国人全那样。悲哀啊。

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发表于 2004-11-25 21:00:00|河南 | 查看全部

飒爽英姿五尺枪

曙光初照演兵场

安南儿女多奇志

不爱红装爱武装

从服装上看,这绝对不是汉朝军队,左边那个拿弯刀的是元朝兵,右边那个留辫子的是清朝兵,中间那个像金兀术,估计是金朝的.

另外汉朝是文明的国度,并不只会破坏,马援在越南建立郡县制,制定法律,兴建城池,开渠灌溉,推广铁器牛耕什么的,非常受当地百姓爱戴,据说越南现在还有伏波庙.

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 楼主| 发表于 2004-11-25 21:07:00|荷兰 | 查看全部

是么,给个英文版的给您看看,越南人如何看待那段历史。

The insurrection led by the two Trung Sisters 征氏姐妹 1- Viet country under Han domination Since the loss of its dependence, Au Lac’s land was merged into China and divided into districts and cantons. The Chao divided Au Lac into two districts: Giao Chi (Tonkin) and Cuu Chan (Thanh Hoa, Nghe An and Ha Tinh). Later, the Han established one more district of Nhat Nam (from the Ngang pass to Quang Nam - Da Nang). These three districts were integrated with six other different districts in mainland China and in Hai Nan island to make up Chau Giao. Chau Giao was headed by a Chinese proconsul. Each district was headed by a Chinese governor who looked after the administrative matters and an officer (do uy) who looked after military matters. In each canton, which were similar to bo (regions) in An Duong Vuong’s time, the Han retained the rule of a local military chief (Lac tuong) as before. The Viet people had to pay tributes of precious and rare products such as tortoise shells, pearls, rhino horns, elephant tusks, etc to the ruling authority. Also, they had to contribute alcohol, rice, oxen, buffaloes, etc to maintain the ruling apparatus. Taxes on salt, iron and many other products were imposed. The Han mandarins vied with each other in seizing land and inhabitants of villages and communes to set up their own plantations. A great number of the Han people were sent and settled among the Viet population. The Viet were compelled to follow the Han customs in terms of dressing, weddings, funerals, etc. Annexation of land in combination with cultural assimilation was plotted by the feudal Han. From early the first century AD, China was plunged in chaos and the ruling functionaries in Chau Giao intensified their exploitation and oppression. Governor Su Ding in Giao Chi was notorious for his cruelty and greed, "who stares at money with wide-opened eyes when seeing it." He resorted to harsh measures to collect taxes, compel the people to pay tributes and oppress the local military chiefs and their descendants. 2- The two Trung sisters prepare for insurrection At that time in Me Linh (Ba Vi and Tam Dao which presently belong to Ha Tay and Vinh Phuc provinces) there were two sisters, Trung Trac and Trung Nhi, daughters of a military chief and descendants of the Hung kings. Born and brought up in a dependent country and a parentless family(1) both of them grew a deep hatred toward the aggressors since their childhood. Trung Trac was extraordinarily brave and undaunted. Her husband Thi Sach was a son of the military chief of Chu Dien district (presently Dan Phuong district, Ha Tay province and Tu Liem district, Hanoi). Thi Sach was also an ardent patriot of strong and indomitable will. The two families of military chiefs in Me Linh and Chi Dien districts got together for the great cause. They also associated with other local chiefs to prepare for uprisings. In Kinh Mon area (Hai Duong) Nguyen Huyen and his daughter Thanh Thien set up a group of insurgents. When Nguyen Huyen died, Thanh Thien sent word to her maternal uncle in Yen Dung (Ha Bac) to rise up in arms and seize a vast area. From Dong Trieu, Mrs Le Chan and the inhabitants reclaiming land along the coast set up their base in An Bien (Haiphong) where militiamen, in turn, carried out farming and training of martial arts at the same time. In Thien Ban (Nam Dinh) Mrs Le Thi Hoa and the villagers rose up in revolt. Owing to the subsequent harsh suppression she led her four sons and the insurgents to move to Cuu Chan and set up their new base along the coast of Nga Son. 3- The outbreak of the insurrection (40 AD) While the two Trung sisters were actively preparing for an uprising, governor Su Ding arrested and killed Thi Sach. His cruel act, instead of overwhelming Trung Trac, poured more oil on the fire. Trung Trac and her sister were resolved to rise up in arms to get revenge for the country and her family. Since then ‘The Oath of Trung Trac’ has circulated among our people with verses praising her patriotism and love to her husband: First, to take revenge for the country Second, to restore the great cause of the Hung kings Third, to clear the injustice for my husband Fourth, to contribute this small merit to the country. (Thien Nam’s ‘Collection of Aphorisms’) It can be said these were the aims of the insurrection. In spring of 40 AD (March), at the Hat (Hat Mon, Ha Tay), the two Trung sisters held up the banner of insurrection in arms. The righteous armies quickly destroyed and captured the military command post of the Han and took control of Me Linh. Legend has it that Nguyen Tam, an old general of 62 in Mai Dong (Hanoi), taking 5000 troops; Miss Quoc in Hoang Xa (Kieu Ky, Gia Lam, Hanoi) taking more than 2000 troops; Mr Cai in Thanh Oai (Ha Tay) disguised himself as a woman taking a group of 3000 female insurgents; and Mrs Vinh Huy in Co Chau (Bac Ninh) disguised herself as a man, taking more than 1000 servicemen, gathered in Hat Mon. Mrs Le Chan in Haiphong, Mrs Thanh Thien from Ha Bac and Mrs Le Thi Hoa from Thanh Hoa also took their troops to join. From Me Linh, the armies launched an attack and captured Co Loa. From there the attack was extended to Luy Lau (Thuan Thanh, Bac Ninh) where were located the headquarters of the dominators. The armies of the two Trung sisters swept like a storm wherever they went through: Strong wind and dust rise up in the west Troops and horses in rumble are marching toward Long Bien. (‘A Historical Ballad of Dai Nam’) People throughout the country enthusiastically followed the two Trung sisters. The mandarins and troops of the ruling authority were inflicted a thundering blow, who dared not resist and abandoned all arms and wealth to flee. Su Ding discarded his official seal, cut off his hair, shaved his beard, disguised himself as a commoner, and mixed himself in the disorderly rabble to return to China. In less than one month, the insurgent army captured all citadels occupied by the occupiers. The insurrection of the two Trung sisters won a complete victory. After more than two centuries dominated by the foreign feudal rule, our people won back their national independence.

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发表于 2004-11-26 09:35:00|北京 | 查看全部

马援在越南“受当地百姓爱戴”也是咱们中国人自己说的吧?越南现在还有伏波庙……咱们中国至今也有侵华日军的“烈士纪念塔”呢。

(注:接受某位贝侬建议,在“中国”前一律加上“咱们”,以免误会)

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发表于 2004-11-26 10:57:00|新西兰 | 查看全部

这张画抬高笑了,越南人穿汉装反击辫子,哈哈哈!!!

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发表于 2004-11-26 10:59:00|湖北 | 查看全部
征氏姐妹是伟大的越南民族英雄!
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发表于 2004-11-26 11:26:00|广东 | 查看全部
以下是引用Uchiha在2004-11-26 10:57:02的发言:

这张画抬高笑了,越南人穿汉装反击辫子,哈哈哈!!!

还应该这样说:“越南人骑着汉族的大象反击辫子,哈哈哈!”因为甲骨文里多处记载黄河中下游地区有大象的活动啊。
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发表于 2004-11-26 11:28:00|广东 | 查看全部
以下是引用Uchiha在2004-11-26 10:57:02的发言:

这张画抬高笑了,越南人穿汉装反击辫子,哈哈哈!!!

你这样说就麻烦了,新挖掘出来的汉装不小心又成了越南人的服装了。哈哈哈!!!
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发表于 2004-11-26 12:07:00|湖北 | 查看全部
以下是引用Uchiha在2004-11-26 10:57:02的发言:

这张画抬高笑了,越南人穿汉装反击辫子,哈哈哈!!!

这张画没有搞笑了。 不仅在越南,在缅、泰、寮人民的传统影象中,传统的中国人被征服以后都成了马褂辫子。

你搞错了,画中的越南女子穿的可不是汉装。 她们可不象现在的无数中国内地汉族女子,穿着花哨开叉的旗袍满街显耀!

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发表于 2004-11-26 12:15:00|湖北 | 查看全部
以下是引用铜碗豆在2004-11-26 11:28:13的发言: 你这样说就麻烦了,新挖掘出来的汉装不小心又成了越南人的服装了。哈哈哈!!!

铜碗豆网友不要忘了,古代华夏人民的服饰绝对是出众的,是华丽和飘张的。 中国人在外人影象中的旗袍马褂形象,是满清统治后才开始的。

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-11-26 12:16:14编辑过]
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发表于 2004-11-26 13:01:00|河南 | 查看全部

改良旗袍只能算时装,当成满族的民族服装都不合适,更何况加到汉族头上了,这种衣服是上世纪30年代设计的,根本没有历史底蕴,类似甲克 牛仔裤什么的,谁穿都可以,不具备民族特色.

另外华夏服装本来就是东亚地区的精品,朝鲜 日本 越南已及国内其他许多少数民族的衣服都深受影响,图片上征氏姐妹穿的衣服绝对有华夏服装的特性,不管别人愿不愿承认,事实就是这样.

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发表于 2004-11-26 13:04:00|海南 | 查看全部

本来东亚的几个国家,如:日本、韩国、越南,还有咱们中国都在争当古代中原文化的正统代表。

那几个邻国未必就把中国视为华夏正统。

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发表于 2004-11-26 13:18:00|河南 | 查看全部
很有趣吧!!2战的时候日本天皇会议厅挂一篇幅,上书岳飞的"精忠报国",而且鬼子还特别崇拜文天祥,但这两位在中国的待遇是一天不如一天.
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发表于 2004-11-26 13:19:00|湖北 | 查看全部
以下是引用迪椰在2004-11-26 13:04:51的发言:

本来东亚的几个国家,如:日本、韩国、越南,还有咱们中国都在争当古代中原文化的正统代表。

那几个邻国未必就把中国视为华夏正统。

现在不论。 日本越南也曾努力向中国学习过,但越南是一直努力摆脱(甚至是反抗)与中国统一成一体(越来越远),日本是为了它自己的文化进步。实际上只有朝鲜半岛国家历史上一直在文化上努力中华化(现在可不一定罗!)。

(你去看看这三国对满清与中华的关系,它们三个的看法完全一样,没有半点疑问·!)

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发表于 2004-11-26 13:26:00|湖北 | 查看全部
以下是引用sifer在2004-11-26 13:01:02的发言:

改良旗袍只能算时装,当成满族的民族服装都不合适,更何况加到汉族头上了,这种衣服是上世纪30年代设计的,根本没有历史底蕴,类似甲克 牛仔裤什么的,谁穿都可以,不具备民族特色.......

旗袍不具备民族特色?那环球中国小姐按民族服饰一项的出场为什么要以旗袍为民族装?它为什么叫旗袍不叫“普通袍”或者汉袍?

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发表于 2004-11-26 13:36:00|河南 | 查看全部
我说的是"改良旗袍",和真正满族的旗袍比是有差别的,改良旗袍是民国时期才出现,和旧旗袍比有故意突出身体曲线的特性,甚至还有开叉露大腿什么的,这种衣服明显西化,所以我说更像流行时装,当成民族其实是个错误,无论是代表中国的传统服装 还是代表汉族或满族的传统服装都不合适.
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发表于 2004-11-26 13:37:00|四川 | 查看全部

代表谁哦,呵呵哈哈

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发表于 2004-11-28 14:57:00|广东 | 查看全部
以下是引用sifer在2004-11-25 21:00:08的发言:

另外汉朝是文明的国度,并不只会破坏,马援在越南建立郡县制,制定法律,兴建城池,开渠灌溉,推广铁器牛耕什么的,非常受当地百姓爱戴,据说越南现在还有伏波庙.

 站在不同的民族立场来说,对一个历史人物的评价可能完全是不同的,一个民族的"英雄"很可能是另外一个民族的"屠夫"。

  至于汉朝是不是“文明的国度”,是不是“并不只会破坏”;马援是不是“非常受当地百姓爱戴”。那还是看看越南人民自己说才算。

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